Anarchy

  1. I received a book catalog in the mail inviting me to lear and perhaps join with anarchists.
    "Anarchy means abolishing the state and all coercive social relations. It means a society in which individuals create and control their own collective organizations to meet their social and economic needs.

    Some say this is impossible, that without government authority we'd descend into violence, lawlessness, and curruption.

    But look around: isn't that pretty much what we have now?
    What say you?
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  2. 13 Comments

  3. by   TheCommuter
    I think I'll pass on this particular offer. I'm too much of a traditionalist to embrace this type of change, so I suppose I'll continue to move in the same direction as the other lemmings in society.
  4. by   pickledpepperRN
    Seems to me these individual created collective organizations would fight amon each other.
    I like the thought of assuming that most people will stop at a stop sign.

    These people have sure written a lot of books. Many have given it a lot of thought.
    I'll just read encyclopedias:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy

    Off topic warning. Are there other boomers who can sing the "ENCYCLOPEDIA" song by Jiminy Cricket?
  5. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from spacenurse
    I received a book catalog in the mail inviting me to lear and perhaps join with anarchists.

    What say you?
    I says "here's an interesting opinion of what constitutes anarchistic behavior":

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]I am often asked if anarchy has ever existed in our world, to which I answer: almost all of your daily behavior is an anarchistic expression. How you deal with your neighbors, coworkers, fellow customers in shopping malls or grocery stores, is often determined by subtle processes of negotiation and cooperation. Social pressures, unrelated to statutory enactments, influence our behavior on crowded freeways or grocery checkout lines. If we dealt with our colleagues at work in the same coercive and threatening manner by which the state insists on dealing with us, our employment would be immediately terminated. We would soon be without friends were we to demand that they adhere to specific behavioral standards that we had mandated for their lives.

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Should you come over to our home for a visit, you will not be taxed, searched, required to show a passport or driver’s license, fined, jailed, threatened, handcuffed, or prohibited from leaving. I suspect that your relationships with your friends are conducted on the same basis of mutual respect. In short, virtually all of our dealings with friends and strangers alike are grounded in practices that are peaceful, voluntary, and devoid of coercion.

    Indeed, as that wikipedia article puts it:
    The word "anarchy" is often used by non-anarchists as a pejorative term, intended to connote a lack of control and a negatively chaotic environment. Because of this, some activists have self-identified as libertarian socialists.
    cheers,
  6. by   mercyteapot
    I work in an anarchiac environment. Stress from the resultant discord is eating me alive. So, I'd pass on society membership. That's just me, though.
  7. by   Alois Wolf
    Anarchism is one of thos philosophies, IMHO, that looks good on paper, but if placed into practice would never ever work. The human being is, by nature, a societal being with a "pack" mentality. If something like that were to take place, in the end the power-hungry, coruptable, greedy will always find some way of exploiting the weaker "independents". I'm fine with my old-fashioned democracy, lobbyist or no.
  8. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from Alois Wolf
    in the end the power-hungry, coruptable, greedy will always find some way of exploiting the weaker "independents".
    Yes. Such behavior does not take place in democracies.

    cheers,
  9. by   Alois Wolf
    Quote from Roy Fokker
    Yes. Such behavior does not take place in democracies.

    cheers,

    I understand and agree with your point, but I still consider it to be the lesser of two evils (the corruption that is).
  10. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I understand and agree with your point, but I still consider it to be the lesser of two evils (the corruption that is).
    I understand your PoV.

    Permit me to disagree. Democracy is nothing short of "mob rule" - where two wolves and a sheep get together and decide what's for lunch.

    As much as I abhor the State - I'd support a Constitutional Republic, with decentralized governance and with very limited powers of government (limited solely to the preservation of life, liberty and property - the very same ideals expressed by the founders of this August republic).


    cheers,

    PS: Do you disagree with the initial quote I posted in my first post?
  11. by   Alois Wolf
    Quote from Roy Fokker
    I understand your PoV.

    Permit me to disagree. Democracy is nothing short of "mob rule" - where two wolves and a sheep get together and decide what's for lunch.

    As much as I abhor the State - I'd support a Constitutional Republic, with decentralized governance and with very limited powers of government (limited solely to the preservation of life, liberty and property - the very same ideals expressed by the founders of this August republic).


    cheers,

    PS: Do you disagree with the initial quote I posted in my first post?
    I agree with what you say and I permit you to disagree (who would I be to say otherwise HAHA), but I believe the alternative is, at the moment time in history, not very practical or pragmatic. I have said this before in other posts that this country is far from perfect and could use improvement (please don't anyone take that out of context, nothing in this life is perfect) especially when it comes to dealing with the current administration and though the future candidates hold some hope for me in my mind, I doubt anything to drastic will change. The thing is.... what you say this country was founded on and what it was meant to be... it still can be that again, if the citizenry stands up and starts caring about what is going on in our government.

    I believe there should be more unbiased information available to the public that is easily understandable to the people who don't understand politics all too well. I remember reading somewhere else on the forum that in some parts or all parts of certain countries it is MANDATED that you get off your rear end and vote. Though I can see this as a possible infringement on our freedoms and liberties, would it really heart to for EVERYONE in the country to voice their opinion.

    Our votes should be the only ones that matter. Get rid of the electoral college. No more lobbyist. Elections should be a matter of honor, merit and ability... not how much money you spend on a campaign or who you know, or who you appeal with more because of your gender, race or social background.

    This country is sick and could definitely use a round of aggressive political/bureaucratic/diplomatic anti-biotics. Political "parties" are dividing a country that is supposed to be united. I don't see a solution to the problem, but I highly doubt anarchism is the answer. We need a strong central government... however this strong central government should be the citizenry itself. Corporate America is America. We as the citizens of this beautiful and great country need to fight for our rights and take back what is ours.

    I believe, however, that even when the majority of opinion rules this can still lead to many grave mistakes, that's why I believe that a good leader should have the ability to be accountable for said such mistakes have the courage to admit to them and the wisdom to correct them.... but that might just as idealistic a dream as, dare I say, world peace? I wonder what Ghandi would say about the world today if he were still alive...

    There must be someone to bring order to the chaos that is human nature. That someone is everyone. But we must all stand together in cohesion for the better good and well-being of humanity. Differences in opinion will always exist, there is no stopping that nor should it be stopped... but if we don't even care anymore what is happening in the world and don't take an active part in it, you are allowing those in power to take advantage of you and you are just as responsible for what happens because of it. (I'm using in a general sense I'm not pointing out anyone in particular, I consider myself to fall under this generalization as well).

    History is known to repeat itself and unless we do something about what it happening in the world today, we will repeat those mistakes and like Rome before us, we too will fall. I, as a self proclaimed patriot and liberal, would hate to see such a beautiful dream be destroyed.
    Last edit by Alois Wolf on Nov 24, '07
  12. by   Conrad283
    Sounds like a cult to me.
  13. by   Alois Wolf
    Quote from Conrad283
    Sounds like a cult to me.
    ...
  14. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I have said this before in other posts that this country is far from perfect and could use improvement (please don't anyone take that out of context, nothing in this life is perfect) especially when it comes to dealing with the current administration and though the future candidates hold some hope for me in my mind, I doubt anything to drastic will change.
    Well yes and no. I do agree that the nation could do with a good dose of improvement - I don't think the US (and specifically the US Government) is playing the role it was intended to by the visions of the founders - I think we have gone way beyond the means as envisioned in our founding principles.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    The thing is.... what you say this country was founded on and what it was meant to be... it still can be that again, if the citizenry stands up and starts caring about what is going on in our government.
    Totally agree! Especially starting with Congress! I've long been a proponent of citizens being "involved" and being "knowledgeable" about what Congress does in their name - from: The US national debt to Websites that track bills before Congress to Agitating for a law that would force Congress to read bills before they pass into Law to the furore over "lobbyists" to The abuses of privacy rights through REAL ID to the double speak as regards the current war...

    ... to name some of the few.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I believe there should be more unbiased information available to the public that is easily understandable to the people who don't understand politics all too well. I remember reading somewhere else on the forum that in some parts or all parts of certain countries it is MANDATED that you get off your rear end and vote. Though I can see this as a possible infringement on our freedoms and liberties, would it really heart to for EVERYONE in the country to voice their opinion.
    Well, again - yes and no. And if you want to figure out why I'm ambivalent on this reason - I humbly suggest Bryan Caplan's book "The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democrcies Choose Bad Policies".

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    Our votes should be the only ones that matter. Get rid of the electoral college.
    Here's where we part ways. I think that the Electoral College is a wonderful thing. Without it States like Montana, Rhode Island and Nebraska will have no sway over states like New York and Texas when it comes to issues of national importance. Remember, this nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic - not a pure Democracy... and there was a reason it was founded as such.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    No more lobbyist.
    The First Amendment of the US Constitution guarantees the rights of citizens to petition Government for redress of their grievances - as such, just "eliminating lobbyists" is against the Constitutional protections of free speech and First Amendment.

    Besides - what do you think organizations like the ANA are? They lobby Congress and other government bodies for "better treatment" for nurses.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    Elections should be a matter of honor, merit and ability... not how much money you spend on a campaign or who you know, or who you appeal with more because of your gender, race or social background.
    Well, you really should be paying attention to this election campaign - specifically one candidate amongst the Republicans....

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I don't see a solution to the problem, but I highly doubt anarchism is the answer.
    As much as you expect this to be a rhetorical question: "Why not?"

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    We need a strong central government... however this strong central government should be the citizenry itself.
    You are contradicting yourself - besides the fact that you just stomped all over the Constitution. Did you know that until the introduction of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution as it had been proposed was not accepted by many delegates? Why? Because the Constitution back before the Bill of Rights advocated a very strong centralized Government at the expense of the States and the people.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I believe, however, that even when the majority of opinion rules this can still lead to many grave mistakes, that's why I believe that a good leader should have the ability to be accountable for said such mistakes have the courage to admit to them and the wisdom to correct them.... but that might just as idealistic a dream as, dare I say, world peace?
    My one question is: Why lay it all on the shoulder of "one leader"? After all, our brilliant constitutional republic form of government chose wisely to split "power" between three equal branches of government!

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    I wonder what Ghandi would say about the world today if he were still alive...
    He would advocate for what he has always advocated for: protectionist markets, self reliance (to the point of stagflation) and individual rights. He may have kept his people free - but they would have forever, for the most part, remained poor.

    Quote from Alois Wolf
    History is known to repeat itself and unless we do something about what it happening in the world today, we will repeat those mistakes and like Rome before us, we too will fall. I, as a self proclaimed patriot and liberal, would hate to see such a beautiful dream be destroyed.
    I agree with your worry about the future - but I'm just curious about how you think we can resort to a better course (I know my answer... but I'm curious to hear yours).


    cheers,
    Last edit by Roy Fokker on Nov 24, '07

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