ABC 9/11 program

  1. I just fininsed watching the 9/11 program and feel its one of the best made programs this year. A moving tribute to the firefighters of the NYFD. It reaffirmed my belief we are at war against those who would take our freedom and kill our citizens.
    To watch those men face death, knowing what awaits them inside those towers and yet go in anyway .....
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  2. 20 Comments

  3. by   mario_ragucci
    If the ABC program left you with a feeling that we are at war against those who would take our freedom and kill our citizens, imagine how the Japanese felt.
    America purposely detonated a 20kiloton nuclear device 500 meters over a very populated city called Hiroshima. 70,000 were killed within a second. Many were left half burned. There were 4 elementary schools within a kilometer a ground zero. The temperature rose to 4000 degrees. The UN eventually placed the final death toll around 200,000, from a single bomb.
    I often wonder how the Japanese got over that. And I also wonder why no one made a movie about it. How could you forget an enemy that creates an extremely hot, 900 MPH blast of wind over your people?
  4. by   fergus51
    You think no one made any documentaries or movies about Hiroshima or WWII? Go to google.com and type "hiroshima" and "movie". James Cameron is even planning one.

    I have to say they are very different subjects. Now, many on this board probably think I'm a bleeding heart liberal-American hater sometimes, but even I see a big difference between WWII (which America got into AFTER Japan attacked it) and the events of September 11.

    Of course Hiroshima was tragic, but it also ended the war in which a lot of people died didn't it?
    Last edit by fergus51 on Mar 23, '02
  5. by   mario_ragucci
    Ending the lives of hundreds of thousands of Japanese was needed in order to end the war. After all, they attacked our military, so, going after their people was okay.
    Had AMerican not detonated 2 nuclear devices over those Japanese cities, they might have attacked America. Detonating those nuclear devices smack dab over populated cities was a "good" thing because it "saved" lives.
  6. by   rncountry
    Mario, you did take American history didn't you? "


    Had AMerican not detonated 2 nuclear devices over those Japanese cities, they might have attacked America. Detonating those nuclear devices smack dab over populated cities was a "good" thing because it "saved" lives.

    They might have attacked America?

    The Japanese attacked us in 1941. The bombing of two Japanese cities took place in 1945. Please note that Hiroshima was bombed first, the Japanese were given an ultimatem of surrender or we drop another one. They refused to surrender. The bomb was then dropped on Nagasaki. They decided we were serious then, and it was the second bombing that made them decide that they should surrender.
    Please do not act as if the Japanese were oh, poor innocents in this. They began in the late 30's by attacking China. Since you are my age I am going to believe yoIf the ABC program left you with a feeling that we are at war against those who would take our freedom and kill our citizens, imagine how the Japanese felt.
    u are well aware of the history around WWII, who did what etc.... but have chosen to ignore what you were taught. Instead you will take the revisionists side and weep for the dead of what was America's enemy. Will you also wail for those in Nanking when the Japanese came through there. It isn't called the rape of Nanking for nothing.
    It is sad that nuclear weapons were dropped and thousands died? Yes. War is sad no matter what. That said I think you are beating a dead horse. It saved thousands of American lives. And given the times and war that had gone on nearly a decade this horrible violence did effectively end it did it not? and I quote again. "If the ABC program left you with a feeling that we are at war against those who would take our freedom and kill our citizens, imagine how the Japanese felt." I really think you did forget who attacked who first. Imagine how the families of the dead American's from the Arizonia felt. Imagine how the families of the dead from the Oklahoma felt, knowing that their son, husband etc... were trapped inside for hours without being able to be rescued. With the oil filled water slowly creeping up, drowning them a bit at a time. They desperately banged on the inside of the ship hoping someone would be able to get to them, instead they died a slow,slow death. Imagine their fear. Imagine the anguish of the sailors in the water around them, many of them with burns, their skin open and laying in salt water listening to the cries of their fellow sailors and countryman desperately, fearfully crying for help. IMAGINE that.
    Last but not least, what the hell does dropping a nuclear weapon on Japan have to do with two suicide pilots flying into the World Trade Centers? Or with those that risked their lives to save others? It sounds as if you would prefer to make the loss of life at the WTC and the horrid way it happened, trivial compared to what the evil Americans did to the poor Japanese. Attacking those poor Japanese and their freedoms.
    You know I doubt seriously if there is anyone out there that hopes to use nuclear weapons again. I don't think it is funny to even joke about it. I also think it is in extremely poor taste to negate what occured on 9/11 with yea but take a look at how bad our country really is.
  7. by   mario_ragucci
    No RNcountry - it's just strange to me how people are lead to believe 9-11 was the worst and most horrible event ever. And this is difficult to approach today, because TV and media are extremely widespread, so often, we are not discussing our views, instead, we are just repeating what were told, or just being quiet.

    I brought up the atomic bombings of civilian cities to remind people that, to the world at large, America has all ready commited the worst atrocity to humanity. And we have. I don't think the people who lived in Tokyo, or Hiroshima, or Nagasaki had anything to do with Pearl Harbor.

    Also, in the news, I heard that England has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iraq if Iraq uses chemical or biological weapons against it's troops. That would be tragic. I don't want to hear this, because, seeing as how America gained world power through the use of these weapons, some might use them against our people, which would directly bother me.

    9-11 was terrible for innocent NYC and WASH families. No doubt i am angry to see those structures topple, damn right. That wasn't some prank; A group of people got really bent in order to do that. Who, and why?
    You may think vaporizing all those women and children in Japan saved lives, but it didn't. If the Japanese can heal , so can we.

    RNCountry, it is truely a dangerous time we live in, and with nuclear weapons on the lose, we need to be non-aggresive, IMHO, and seek a non-violent approach. And thats an American view, from and American.
  8. by   KC CHICK
    I understand that hundreds of firefighters perished when the buildings collapsed.....so did police officers. Why is everything so FOCUSED on the losses of the NYFD, and hardly anything has been said about the losses of the NYPD??
    As the future wife of a police officer, this infuriates me. The respect of both departments should be equal....they BOTH put themselves on the line for others. The only mention about the PD that I've seen on the news lately has been the retrieval of the female officer's remains from ground zero.

    Police officers take risks and make sacrifices every day....as do their families. They derserve the same respect as firefighters.

    Anne
  9. by   fergus51
    Mario, how can you think ending a war doesn't save lives in the long run? How is it America's fault that Japan's gov't was obsessed with power to the point that they would invade and attack other countries. Is the bombing of Hiroshima tragic? Yes. Was it done just to be mean to the kind Japanese citizens? No. Let's be real here, when a governement of another country declares war on yours in a surprise attack, you have the right to defend yourself. What should the US have done after Pearl Harbor? Tried to sit down for a nice heartfelt talk with the Emporor of Japan to see what we did to make him angry with us so we could apologize for it, gain world peace and hold hands singing "we are the world".... Umm...I don't think that would have been super effective somehow...

    Anne, there have been a lot of mention about the NYPD here. Maybe it's because my dad is a retired police officer that I hear about it, but they have been reported on a lot in our media. His vets club even had a volunteer who had been at the WTC come to give them a presentation. If there is more focus on the FD it could be because they lost more men, or it could have something to do with the NYPDs not so stellar public relations prior to this event (I noticed recently in the news the convictions of the NY policemen who beat that Haitian man in one precinct were overturned). Could be a few bad apples are spoiling their image so people are less willing to make them saints like the firemen?
  10. by   KC CHICK
    Yes, fergus, they have been mentioned...if only briefly. They haven't gotten nearly the amount of coverage that the firefighters have.

    I guess you could be right....It's all about IMAGE. I would just hope that if anything happened to your father, or my fiance, that they would get the respect that they deserve....numbers shouldn't matter. One from either department is one too many.

    Anne
  11. by   mario_ragucci
    I don't want to touch off a debate over our American use of atomic weapons in WW2. That's not my intention. Neither am I unAmerican by suggesting using those weapons was right or wrong. And I do not want to compare 9-11 to WW2.

    I'm just scared of what could happen if people, who have nuclear weapons, could do if they too want to end a war. Plutonium and (refined) Uranium 235 have been around now for about 60 years. As a student nurse, I don't want anyone to suffer. And I don't want war. And I don't want bombing. And I don't know if revenge is an option this time.

    If the fanatics behind the 9-11 events have managed to procure fissile materials, I don't know if going after them, and forcing their backs against a wall, is going to help the world. I'm just venting fear.

    Our military men and women are trying to end the threat of another 9-11. The heroic people who saved lives at the WTC have our highest respect. As Americans, we do stand united. As Americans, are we united with the rest of the world? Why would anyone want to harm us? To what extreme can harm be taken? How can we stop it?

    Maybe I'm thinking about this too much today. I just don't want to hear about or see anyone else die, like they did on 9-11, or at any time.
  12. by   nursedawn67
    Originally posted by KC CHICK
    I understand that hundreds of firefighters perished when the buildings collapsed.....so did police officers. Why is everything so FOCUSED on the losses of the NYFD, and hardly anything has been said about the losses of the NYPD??
    As the future wife of a police officer, this infuriates me. The respect of both departments should be equal....they BOTH put themselves on the line for others. The only mention about the PD that I've seen on the news lately has been the retrieval of the female officer's remains from ground zero.

    Police officers take risks and make sacrifices every day....as do their families. They derserve the same respect as firefighters.

    Anne
    I have to agree with you KC.....I rarely hear anything about the brave policemen that were involved in 9/11. In fact there were alot of brave people lost that day and the following days, but we hardly hear anything about them now.


    As far as the WWII, I feel the USA did what they felt necessary.....I feel back then that the Japanese government would have bombed us in the same way if they had the capabilities. And yes we waited before it was done....we warned....I wouldn't want to be the one having to make the decision that was made that day. Japan started it with no mercy on us. and we fought hard before we actually did "drop the bomb". How long should we have stood by and watched our men fight and lose their lives...someone had to make a major decision and do something to stop it. Am I happy that 200,000 Japanese had to die? NO. But that was the past...we need to learn from the past...ALL countries do.
  13. by   fergus51
    I'm completely with you on that Anne. One senseless death form any occupation is one too many. I spoke with my dad about this after seeing your post and he thinks it has a lot to do with image too. He said he's surprised at how much coverage the NYPD did get after all their scandals. He said it's like Rudy Guiliani (I can't spell), who wasn't so loved before 9-11 but became a hero after it.
  14. by   mario_ragucci
    Originally posted by greer128


    And yes we waited before it was done....we warned....But that was the past...we need to learn from the past...ALL countries do.
    I think the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have evacuated if they knew that was coming. Don't you?

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