A Crack In Bush's Facade - page 4
Care to comment? Published on Friday, June 27, 2003 by Ted Rall A Crack In Bush's Facade by Ted Rall MINNEAPOLIS--Bush lied... Read More
Jul 2, '03BushII changed the rules with the pre-emptive strike
if intelligence was 'cooked'
Saddam's son told us years ago the weapons had been destroyed; the only place I can think they might be hidden is if the Stargate conspiracy was true!
the administration has backpedaled, we are now looking for evidence of a WMD program.......
http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Last edit by maureeno on Jul 2, '03
Jul 3, '03Okay, I was hoping to see some answers that I had asked for. I had asked for some opinions re: the questions in my 2nd post on Pg. 2 of this thread??? Getting some answers to these questions would help a lot, ya know? Thank You, April
Jul 3, '03My God people, we do not have the whole story because it is and should be protected info, so how in the heck can we judge Bush?
Our guys are still being killed to this day, yesterday another soldier killed by a sniper, day before that 2 were reportedly killed.. so it's still not safe there.
Jul 3, '03Originally posted by RN2007
If anyone cares to do so, please explain clearly to the board why Sadam chose to stall time and time again by not providing us with the specific info that we requested?
When he did come up with a big bulk of info, why was most of it old info of which much was incorrect and did not address all the questions that we asked re: where exact locations of WMD and/or the methods that they supposedly used in destroying it?
Plus, keep in mind that Sadam lied many times before about destroying WMD. What do you think that Sadam and his thugs did during the time that he stalled over the course of many, many months?
And since Sadam is a mastermind at hiding himself, don't you think he is equally adept at hiding these weapons?
Alright, so please enlighten us by providing your answers and opinions re: the questions that I have asked above.
I hope that many of you take the time to think about and answer the questions that I have asked. It surely makes me wonder. And yes, this is a friendly, spirited debate.
Take Care, April
Why did he give old and/or misleading information?
I don't know. I cannot read Arabic, was not an inspector.
What did he do (WHICH months?) I guess the time frame is not clear but it is not important because I do not know what he was doing.
I do not know whether he is a mastermind at hiding weapons. Is he hiding himself or is he dead?
I DO know the Secretary of State Powell showed slides of locations the administration claimed were sites of WMH. Not yet proven.
He read from a many years old thesis of a grad student in California as if it were current intelligence.
We were told SH had tried to buy uranium from Niger. The documentation was forged and had been suspected as such by the CIA.
We were told we needed to be vaccinated against smallpox.
We were shown maps and slides of mobile weapons labs that turned out to be for weather balloons sold to Iraq by our allies, the British.
Please explain why we must 'trust' our President? We have been presented with a "Catch 22" that the administration acted on information we cannot be given even after "Mission Accomplished" Why?
Can we be provided with a statement by anyone in the administration as to the fact that there is classified information that would pursuade us to believe the apparent lies are true if only they could tell us?
Sorry I cannot read the mind of an evil dictator.Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Jul 4, '03
Jul 4, '03Spacenurse, exactly... However, because we do not know the answers to these questions that I asked, we really cannot say that it was wrong for Bush to go into Iraq as he did, etc. I think that we do know that Sadam is a mastermind at hiding himself and most probably his WMD as well, because of the very DEEP, complex underground tunnels found there, that he made sure was built all over the place. I mean that is just common sense.
Oh, and the Mission has not been accomplished yet, because the war is still ongoing, we do not Sadam or many of his other Thugs In Training, and our soldiers are still looking for the well hid weapons, therefore of course the Confidential Info cannot be leaked out. And I beg to differ, Bush had said in the beginning that he would not compromise anything by giving out very sensitive, confidential info. I remember at least hearing him say this in one or more of his many speeches on TV. Did that not mean anything to you? You know, because we do not know what is contained in this Confidential Info, that is the reason that we should not call the President a liar, etc... Also, I would not doubt that after the war is over which will be a mighty long time, I bet there will be some info that the public will never know because it should be strictly confidential, but that does not mean that a President is lying or hiding things from the people.
And I asked all those questions in the post on Pg. 2 of this thread, hoping that some people would give their ideas re: why SH stalled, etc., etc., . But Spacenurse, you are right, obviously we do not Really know, but we do know what an evil dictator he is and has been in the past and it was his decision not to comply after we asked over and over again for the same SPECIFIC info, and he was told that we would not negotiate regarding this. So he acted very guilty by not doing what he was supposed to, therefore Bush had to do what he felt he had to for our country to protect us. This seems pretty clear to me.
However, for sure, in the FUTURE, when the FACTS about this War start trickling in, if it is found that Bush absolutely lied to start the war or anything else this severe, well you can bet that I will be against him at that point, but not before. I just believe it is far too premature to call Bush a liar, etc..
So, today is July 4th and I will continue to support GWB. And I strongly believe in every word in Lee Greenwoods song,
"I am proud to be an American" - because at least I know I"m Free"....... Let's all say a prayer today and thank God for what we all have and the fact that we are alot safer today, although we have a long ways to go, and for God to please help our Leaders pave the way to peace between all countries. Also, let's make a commitment to look inward and take care of our own issues and problems, and try to treat ALL PEOPLE better, regardless of who they are. Happy July 4th ......April
Jul 4, '03To those who have praised Bush, called him a "courageous" or said "give it a rest" I am not attempting to engage in a political debate. You have every right to your opinion, and therefore, I have every right to mine. President Bush, and I use the term President loosely, has cheated his way into office, put our economy into a downward spiral the likes of which would make the Depression of the '30s look like Mardis Gras, created a war to exact his own vengence, and now is seeking to pass legislation that would create an 80 hour work week so that hard working americans will find it even more impossible to meak out a living. Let us not forget that this is a man that grew up with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth, admitted to illicit drug and alcohol abuse, ran two of his fathers corporations into the ground, that used his father's political connections to aviod going to Vietnam, yet has no quams sending others to war. This man has never known struggle or sacrifice, therefore, how can he empathize with the plight of the average American. He who has hid in Big Daddy's pocket for his entire life? He has never had to put in an honest days work. Received a degree he did not earn from a prestigious college, again due to his name rather than hard work, I mean come on the Ivy Leaguers should sue for defamation every time the man opens his mouth and slaughters the English language. Has your life been made better since this joker has been in office, because mine sure hasn't. As for those that criticize, rage on. They are the checks and balances that every democracy needs and every dictator fears. As citizens of this country it is our duty to scrutinize and hold accountable the person in charge of our nation. Our president is taking our hard earned tax dollars and spending 3 out of 4 weekends at Camp David, meanwhile the poor are getting poorer, employment rates are skyrocketing, we continue to war or threaten war with every impoverished country that does not subscribe to our way of life, and yet corporations and those who run them are making millions, polluting our water and stuffing campaign contributions into Bush's already overstuffed pockets. I mean if it were truly WMDs that Bush was worried about then why not go after Korea, they already have nukes and the hutzpah to use them. For a democracy we certainly like to persecute those that speak out against the president and crucify countries that choose to live in a different manner than we do. So on this day of patriotic celebration let us not forget those that have made the ultimate sacrifice so that we may live free by becoming apathetic or by being lemmings simply accepting what is thrust upon us. That being said, God bless America!
Jul 4, '03My husband just read your post and said, "Well done!"
JAZZ, MADE IN AMERICA!
loved by the world!
Jul 4, '03http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20030704/index.php
For Friday, July 4, 2003
Trust Is Important
If there are national-security
reasons for not discussing the incident, all Gen. Richard
Myers and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have to
say is, "No comment."
Jul 4, '03RN2007: You really think you're free?
1. The FBI can go to your library at any time and look at what books you've checked out; if they don't like your choices, you're got some 'splainin to do...
2. I hope you haven't dropped out of scuba diving lessons in the last five years. If you have, you need to get in touch with the FBI...they want to talk to you.
3. The gov't is spending $$$$ on a way to positively ID a person just by his/her walk.
4. Careful, your e-mail, posts on BBs are all up for scrutiny, too.
All of this, thanks to the Patriot Act.
Your freedoms can be taken away from you in a second. Regime changes can happen overnight, and it's amazing what people will put up with just to keep body and soul together. People who sit back and placidly accept what the gov't dishes out to them are the ones that scare me the most...they would sell you or me out in a New York minute.
Jul 4, '03I have nothing to hide and in the name of having a safer country, I would not be upset at all if I were questioned about any of my activities. However, a lot of people cannot say that. I would much rather to be safe than sorry. Oh, and my husband and I have a rather nice lifestyle and we feel totally free to do anything we want, but then again we are not up to any mischief. And how can anyone just assume that Bush did not earn his college degree?
Listen, we are all able to express our views, my point has always been for BOTH sides of the coin to be expressed on THIS THREAD, regardless of who said what on any other thread. OH, and I am waiting for some of you who are ANTI-BUSH or anyone else to please answer my questions that I asked over and over and over in my previous posts. See, how can we say that Bush was definitely wrong going into Iraq without knowing the whole story? We cannot, and if you think you can, well then I should think that you should at least answer these questions that I asked before on PG. 2 of this thread. Just saying that you do not know does not work, when you are seriously bashing the President, calling him a liar and talking about how wrong he is for going into Iraq. Ya know, Bush did not start this mess, he is just trying to clean it up!
Jul 4, '03It is very interesting to see the different posts here. But what seems to get shoved under the carpet is America's past history of dealing with Saddam Hussein. In case anyone has forgotten, SH had our full support during the 70s and 80s--same as many of the military dictators in South and Central America. We encouraged SH to attack in Iran in the 1980s, and gave him tactical support. Where on earth do you think Iraq got their WMDs from? Who do you think gave him the ability to make chemical and biological weapons? Good ol' U.S.
In 1988, when he used chemical weapons on the Kurds (an incident that has often been mentioned in promoting the evilness of Sh), the U.S. didn't blink. In fact, Bush senior extended somethhing like a billion $$ in credit to SH. The only reason that SH fell out of favor was because he finally thumbed his nose up at the U.S. and attacked Kuwait. And even then, we had ample opportunity to dispose of him at that time. But we didn't. Even though Bush senior kept calling him another Adolph Hitler (and would Hitler have been allowed to stay in office if he had survived the war?), SH stayed in power. The U.S. encouraged the Shites and Kurds to rise up against him, promising support if they did. Well, they did rise up and we ignored them. The Shiites and Kurds were slaughtered. So we have known about the "tens of thousands" of graves which were uncovered since 1991. Why the shock now? We helped SH slaughter them by breaking a promise to these people.
If SH had not attacked Kuwait, he would be just another U.S. friendly dictator. Did we ever hear about his evil ways prior to the first Gulf War? We certainly thought it safe to supply him with weapons, even though he attacked his neighbor.
Likewise, the U.S. helped create osama bin laden. We helped create the which trained the Islamic militants to fight the Russians. Osama worked with the CIA for heaven's sake. And now, with the Russians gone, it shouldn't have been surprising that our "friends" suddenly turn on us. Saddam and Osama, two American creations.
Anyway, this is why I find this whole rhetoric about Iraq so troubling. Iraq was in no way involved in Sept 11, even though our gov't is trying its hardest to give that impression. We basically attacked a third world country run by a third rate dictator. If SH was such a threat and had all of these weapons stashed, then why didn't he use them when the U.S. attacked? What was he waiting for, the next war?
No one else on the planet thought that Iraq was any sort of threat, not even their close neighbors. Not even Iran, who has been attacked before. Except for Britain (where many refer to Blair as "Bush's poodle" and where Blair is now also being accused of lying), the coalition of the willing were all basically bribed or threatened to support the war. And of these countries, only one had the support of its people--Israel. In the others, such as Spain and Italy, somewhere like 90% of the population opposed any action in Iraq.
Our soldiers continue to be killed because the Iraqis do not want to be occupied by a foreign power. Our soldiers are out there in the blistering heat, facing down a hostile population, and for what? And all Bush does is deliver his clever little one-liners. Bush, who was AWOL for the entire time he was in the reserves during Vietnam, and who is now busy trying to cut benefits to veterans. Yes, cut benefits to soldiers, sailors, and all military personnel. Is that showing support for our soliders? Imagine that, coming back from Iraq, and finding that your benefits have been reduced.
Meanwhile, as we pour endless money into this Iraq adventure, our economy continues to decline. More tax cuts to the rich, more curtailing of social services, and now the changes in overtime pay--which will affect nurses bigtime if it goes through. Bush is not a friend to nurses, or to anyone who works for a living beneath the level of CEO.
Anyway, someone on this thread said they feel safer now. I surely don't. I think we have ignited more hatred than ever before. Even our long time allies have moved away from us. We have alienated almost the entire world, because of Iraq and other Bush actions--refusing to stick by the Kyoto treaty and refusing to ratify the International War Crimes Court stand out. There's also issues on cutting off funding for aid to women and children, family planning, and so on.
So, for those of you who think SH appeared out of nowhere, read up a little on history. He was no more evil in the 80s, when he was our pal, then in the 90s when he suddenly became "an evil man." He was just as inhumane in 1985. Most of the people he killed died while he was a great friend of the U.S., or during/immediately post first Gulf War.
Last edit by roxannekkb on Jul 4, '03