"General says prisoners get mats, even bagels"

  1. In todays' NY Times, ww.newyorktimes.com, an article by the general in charge of the Guantanamo prisoners , is explaining their treatment for a pending visit from the International Red Cross. The general believes the Arabs are being treated well, that they are even being served bagels. IMHO, this statement sums up what is wrong with U.S. international relations. Bagels are Jewish bread.
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  2. 132 Comments

  3. by   Dplear
    Actually baglels are a Kosher bread and followers of Islam eat a Kosher diet. So bagels are acceptable to them.

    Just a little info that I picked up from a friend who is Pakistani.

    Dave

    Yea though I walk through the Valley of Death I fear no evil for I am the meanest MotherF****er around

  4. by   donmurray
    They are probably enjoying the fresh air in their cages after those stuffy hoods, and now their hair is shaved, they can catch some rays too!
  5. by   prn nurse
    Kosher is Jewish. Kosher dietary laws are explicitly listed in the Torah. I do not think the Arabs are reading the Torah. And keeping Kosher is part of the Jewish Code. I do not know what your Arab Pakistani friend was referring to. Arab bread is a large round flat loaf and also pita bread. Jews eat bagels, Arabs eat pita.
  6. by   Dplear
    no kidding kosher is jewish....but followers of islam also eat a kosher diet. And the Torah is similar in many aspects to the koran. Both religions were founded by brothers that had the same up bringing. Moses is even considered a prohet by mant moslems.

    I get this straight from a very religiious moslem who follows a strict KOSHER diet.

    Dave
  7. by   Q.
    Prn Nurse-

    Just to clarify - Dave stated followers of Islam eat a Kosher diet - not necessarily just Arabs. They could be different.
  8. by   Q.
    Originally posted by prn nurse
    Jews eat bagels, Arabs eat pita.
    This seems like a blanket statement.

    I do not know who eats what bread - but logic dictates to me if bagel = kosher, and Islam = kosher diet, then bagels are acceptable to most Islam followers.

    I could be wrong though.
  9. by   3651bht
    Nice try but you'll have to do better than that.. I post nothing it a thread and my name still comes up and he spells it right... Wow gotta love those Texa- - - - - -........I really don't think bread is worth the squable.. Sorry prn nurse....


    bobbi
  10. by   Dplear
    Bobbi,
    Or how ever you want your name spelled or pronounced or whatever......I never ONCE mentioned you in this thread, and if you are referring to my signature line, well then too bad because if you will notice it is on all of my recent posts. I was simply responding here about bread and kosher diets. This has nothing to do with your misbegotten ideas or paranoid thoughts.

    Frankly I am tired of getting in a battle of wits with someone like you who obviously is unarmed.

    So basically just get a F***ing life.

    Dave

    P.S. If my posty offends you too bad
  11. by   prn nurse
    more defining than their language. Bread is the mainstay of the diet of any culture. The evolution of a civilization rested on its' ability not to starve into extinction. Women utilized what was available. There was no exchanges of cultures as there is now. Peoples of our hemisphere ate tortillas. Why? The Greeks/Arabs ate pita type bread. Why? The orientals--something entirely different. The Russians and Scandinavian made bread specific to their region and climate. Ditto for the Jewish culture. Bagels are Jewish. I am aware that Jews and Arabs are both sides of the same dime, but their cultures are 180 degrees apart. There are few shared food customs and their bread divides them. You do not see an Arab eating bagels..(unless it is in Times Square). It is their cultural diversity. I will keep an open mind. I am willing to look if you can show me a site that states Arabs are eating bagels. There are Jews living in Pakistan, Dave. Are u sure your pal isn't a closet Jew? I know some Catholics who won't eat bagels. I asked , "why not?" They answered, "I'm not Jewish!!" How many Northerners in our own country eat cornbread? I am not talking about eating something one a month or once every 3 months. A cultures' bread is what they eat and have eaten DAILY for the last 500-1000 years.It defines their origins. It is a whole semester of study in cultural anthropology. And the Italians, bless 'em, figured out out to dry their bread and turn it into pasta!
    Last edit by prn nurse on Jan 18, '02
  12. by   Q.
    Originally posted by Dplear
    Bobbi,
    Or how ever you want your name spelled or pronounced or whatever......I never ONCE mentioned you in this thread, and if you are referring to my signature line, well then too bad because if you will notice it is on all of my recent posts. I was simply responding here about bread and kosher diets. This has nothing to do with your misbegotten ideas or paranoid thoughts.

    Frankly I am tired of getting in a battle of wits with someone like you who obviously is unarmed.

    So basically just get a F***ing life.

    Dave

    P.S. If my posty offends you too bad

    Dave, I think I am in love with you.
  13. by   Dplear
    Kosher laws
    First law: Allowed animals
    Allowed are mammals which chew their cud and have a split hoof. So cows are permitted. Pigs and horses are forbidden.
    Birds: Chicken, ducks and goose are allowed. Ostrich and Emu are forbidden.
    Fish: All fish with fins and easily removable scales ( without tearing the skin ) are allowed.
    Molluscs and crustaceans: This includes shrimps lobsters and oysters are forbidden, such as lard, chitin and porcine lipase.
    Ingredients: All ingredients derived from not kosher foods are forbidden. Ingredients such as gelatin, tallow or lard, chemicals derived from animal fat such as glycerol or monoglycerides are prohibited.
    Emulsifiers such as used in the production of margarine containing mono and diglycerides are of great concern as their plant or animal origin are often unknown.
    Second law: Animal blood Blood is considered to be a special fluid inheret to life. Consumption is forbidden. Slaughter must be performed by a trained person in a way to eliminate the blood from the remaining meat. Slaughter must therefore follow a specific procedure.
    Heat, hot water and various acids to prevent microbiological contamination are forbidden at this stage of processing. Inspection of the meat must guarantee that there are no specific defects. After that the meat is soaked and salted to remove last remains of blood. The second law does not apply to fish.
    Third law: Separation of dairy products from meat products and equipment used
    The third law says that all kosher foods, ingredients and equipment are classified in three categories:
    1.- Dairy products
    2.- Meat products
    3.- Pareve: Here are included all vegetable foods fish, eggs and honey. Pareve food and their ingredients must be dairy free.
    People with allergies to milk and their derivates, allergies to egg proteins and vegan vegetarians welcome the third law as they can find the separation of these three categories which are not being observed by any other food laws. Pareve may contain a certain amount of milk and their derivates as it is sometimes not to be avoided. This may be tolerated for religious purposes but should be kept in mind of those who are very sensitive.
    Ingredients allowed for pareve foods: Agar-agar, Carrageen, dextrose, gum arabic (Acacia), lecithin Chocolate may also contain milk and milk derivates. The technical equipment used for milk chocolate must be cleaned throughly before producing pareve chocolate. European chocolate may have up to 5% of other fats than cocoa fat. These fats can be of vegetable and of animal origin.
    Fourth law: Ban ofFinland grains of wheat, oats, rye, barley and spelt during the Passover week
    Permitted is matzo which is a specifically prepared unleavened bread, matzo meal and matzo cake flour.
    Many baked products are available completely grain free giving persons with grain allergies such as coeliac disease to get foods which are free of certain allergens.

    Grain-like materials
    Rabbis in Europe have extended the prohibition of the grain rules to other grain-like materials such as legumes, corn, rice mustard and sesame seeds.
    Sugar and corn syrup are avoided as ingredients of many products during Passover The third rule supports the theory that the deep roots of the Jewish religious laws regarding kosher foods were unconciously based on veterinary and epidemiological experiences which had summed over centuries under the classification " this is good and that is bad".



    Moslems
    Halaal food means permitted, allowed lawful or legal for Muslims. The opposite of Halaal is Haraam meaning prohibited, not allowed, unlawful, illegal. Nutrition of Muslims differs from one region to another. There is a strong negation of porc and his derivates, gelatine, meat of dogs, birds of prey, frogs and snails.
    Killing of animals are ritually. Alcohol is forbidden. Consume of blood is not allowed. The use of animal fat in backery is forbidden. Gelatine is not allowed.
    Exceptions are allowed only in emergencies.
    The rules for Halaal are very similar to those of kosher foods
    The most important rules for Halaal are:
    1.- Meat must be slaughtert in a particular way. 2.- Only certain animal products are allowed
    3.- Technological processing , like Processing aids, cleaning materials and equipment used in production must be free from prohibited food traces.
    These restrictions are based on the Quran (The revealed book)and Sunna
    The Islamic dietary laws which rule the production of Halaal foods is a religious matter which can be handled only by a Muslim expert. The Quran is the holy book of Muslims. It was written between 610 and 632 by Muhammad which lived from 570 to 632 of our age.

    Halaal (lawful) food product definition
    The Muslim Food Board (U.K.) [139] gives the following definition of food for Moslems
    [139]:
    Halaal food is defined as any food product that is free from all of the following:
    Any product or by-product derived from:
    a) Pig
    b) Blood
    c) Carnivorous animals (except fish]
    d) Reptiles and insects
    e) Any marine animals except fish
    f) The bodies of dead animals
    g) The bodies of Halaal animals (i.e. Buffalo, Cow, Sheep, Lamb, Goat, Deer, Rabbit, Chicken etc.) which are not slaughtered according to the Islamic Law.
    h) Wine,Ethyl Alcohol or Spirits, where these remain in their original chemical form.
    Vinegar, produced from alcohol. Fermentation is only permitted when vinegar as final product is wanted.A rest of 0,5Any product or by-product (including any product used temporarily as a substitute] which contains any one or more of the above products in however minute quantity, whether as an ingredient or sub-ingredient or as a processing aid or as a releasing agent or as a glazing agent or as an additive or as a color or in any other form, is Haraam ( unlawful for Muslims.
    Some examples of Halaal food products are as follow:
    1. Milk (Cow, Sheep and Goats)
    2. Honey
    3. Eggs
    4. Fish
    5. Edible plants (including sea plants), which are not intoxicant
    6. Edible fresh or naturally frozen vegetables
    7. Edible fresh or dried fruits
    8. Edible nuts like peanuts,cashew nuts, hazel nuts, Walnuts etc.
    9. Edible grains such as wheat, rice, rye, barley, oats etc.
    10.Edible condiments such as cardamom, clove, sage leaves, turmeric, chilli, curcumin etc.
    Some common examples of Haraam ( unlawful,forbidden) food products are as follows:
    1. Bone stocks or animal fats (e.g.: Lard, suet, dripping, gelatine, aspic, glycerol, stearates, stearic acid, proteins, amino acids, bone, charcoal, pepsin, animal renet etc. )
    At the beginning of 1998 the Al Azhar University of Cairo redefined gelatine as halaam.According to the University of Cairo is gelatine a food ingredient which is so strongly hydrolysed that there is no connection left with the original pig. This new point of view is official granted but not everywhere accepted by all Moslems.The industral use of gelatine should therefore be avoided.
    The Islamic religion does not have a central religious head which dictates latest findings but some authorities are accepted in their leadership, such as the mufti of the Al Azhar University of Cairo.
    Due to different translations of the Koran the local interpretation of its content differs from country to country[139]. 2. Any additive or color derived from animals: (e.g. E 120 Cochineal
    E 104 Quinoline yellow (if glycerol is used)
    E 153 Carbon black (if animal charcoal is used)
    E 471 Mono and diglycerides of fatty acids (if animal products is used)

    E 472 (a to e) Acetic ,lactic, citric, tartaric acid esters of mono and diglycerides of fatty acids (if animal product is used)

    E 474 Sucroglycerides (if animal product is used)
    E 476 Polyglycerol esters of polycondensated fatty acids of castor oil (if animal product is used)
    3. Production of whey powder or whey solids using animal based rennet.
    4. Lactose made from whey which is produced using animal rennet.
    5. Lining of containers with animals or alcohol products as used in baking of bread, cakes etc.
    6. Production of beta-carotene and apocarotenal using animal based gelatine.
    7. Use of animal based glycerine as a coating for raisins or as a flower improver.
    8. Vitamins A, D and beta-carotene which is protected in a matrix that do not conform to the above Halaal Food Production definition. The above are some examples of Halaal and Haraam food products,the list is by no means complete. 9.- Plants which can cause drug addiction and cause doping.[139] Not permitted foods are called Haraam. The hypothesis that certain kinds of food were forbidden because of hygienical reasons was made by Lck in 1966 and Saleh in 1972. This hypothesis is nowaday denied unanimously.It is believed that all rules have strict religious origin[139]. A food does not lose his halaal character when it proves to be allergenic to a small part of the population.
    Toxic foods such as containing aflatoxins are haraam because they are harmful [139]


    The rules for Halaal are very similar to those of kosher
    foods


    The web site I got this off of is www.ourfood.com

    Islamic food is VERY SIMILAR to kosher, and if it is kosher it is safe for islam to eat.

    Dave
  14. by   3651bht
    Please send resume, cover letter,and salary request and I'll put your name on my list.. You know of Fuc---- Friends...Also if you have any scantily clothed pics that might help your cause...FYI I have seen your signature line in other threads where I had posted Try to stick with the right people to address....

    May the sun shine brightly on you, in peace, and may the wind be always at your back or something like that...

    No matter who you are,
    Say a prayer this season.
    No matter what your faith,
    Say a prayer this season.
    No matter how you celebrate,
    Say a prayer this season.
    There are so many ways
    to celebrate faith,
    There are so many faiths
    To celebrate life.
    No matter who,
    No matter what
    No matter how...
    You pray.
    Let's say a prayer
    This season,
    Together, for peace.

    December 1999

    From Journey Through Heartsongs , by Mattie Stepanek.@ Sept 2001 Excerpted courtesy of Vacation Spot Publishing

    People are often unreasonable, iilogical,
    and self-centered;
    Forgive them anyway.

    If you are kind, People may accuse you
    of selfish, ulterior motives;
    Be kind anyway.

    If you are successful, you will win some
    false friends and some true enemies;
    Succeed anyway.

    If you are honest and frank,
    people will cheat you;
    Be honest and frank anyway.

    What you spend years building, someone
    could destroy overnight.
    Build anyway.

    If you find serenity and happiness,
    they may be jealous;
    Be happy anyway.

    The good you do today,
    people will often forget tomorrow;
    Do good anyway.

    Give the world the best you have,
    and it may never be enough;
    Give the world the best you've got anyway.


    You see, in the final analysis,
    it is between you and God;
    It was never between you and them anyway..

    Mother Teresa's Anyway.


    Oh I didn't play by the rules and run a line across my paper like someone ( probably another third grader) taught me to before I added my signature lines Guess what p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    bobbi

    ___________________________________________
    Plans are what humans make to amuse God
    Last edit by 3651bht on Jan 18, '02

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