Props to God, ignore the nurses - Page 8

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  1. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from not.done.yet
    For those of us who have had family members who lost, hearing people credit themselves for praying hard enough that God decided to save someone is pretty painful. I guess if I just prayed harder my 13 year old son would not have died, eh?
    not.done.yet--I am so sorry for your loss.
    DizzyLizzyNurse, lorirn58, and not.done.yet like this.
  2. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from samadams8
    Everything, even many things in science, require various levels of faith.
    Science does not require faith.
    DizzyLizzyNurse, lorirn58, fromtheseaRN, and 4 others like this.
  3. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from not.done.yet
    For those of us who have had family members who lost, hearing people credit themselves for praying hard enough that God decided to save someone is pretty painful. I guess if I just prayed harder my 13 year old son would not have died, eh?
    This is something that's always bothered me too about that sentiment. There's no shortage of tragedy and promise lost in this world and those people get prayed over too.
    DizzyLizzyNurse, lorirn58, not.done.yet, and 1 other like this.
  4. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from olderthandirt51
    We've all seen pts that all the right things were done for them yet they passed away---the drugs were given, the drips titrated, the treatments administered---but they slipped away into eternity. No, God wasn't physically in the room to see him pushing drugs or doing a treatment, but he was there in spite of your unbelief in the form of those dedicated doctors and nurses whether you or any of them realized it. It's a pity you can't see this.
    You have faith. How nice for you. Not everyone HAS faith or even the same faith as you, and believe it or not, can be quite happy and successful without it. God Is something that is personal -- don't go putting others down because they don't share your view of God. That's downright offensive.
    DizzyLizzyNurse, lorirn58, LaneyB, and 7 others like this.
  5. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from pumpkinseeds
    That's not true. There is nothing in Catholic doctrine that teaches Holocaust victims are going to Hell.
    Only the Jewish ones who didn't take Christ as their Savior. I'm not Catholic, but isn't this the basis of Christianity and isn't Catholicism Christianity?
    Pistachio and nursel56 like this.
  6. Oct 6, '12 by
    Sorry, double post.
  7. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from rubato
    Only the Jewish ones who didn't take Christ as their Savior. I'm not Catholic, but isn't this the basis of Christianity and isn't Catholicism Christianity?
    How nice to see someone acknowledge Catholicism as Christianity. So many seem to believe that the only Christian is a "born again."
    DizzyLizzyNurse and not.done.yet like this.
  8. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from TeenyTinyBabyRN
    So if anything good happens, it all the staff's work. If anything bad happens, that's just nature...
    You have presented a precise naturalistic version of the argument of the faith-based reasoning that the OP is bothered by:

    If anything good happens, then God get's the credit. If anything bad happens, well... that wasn't God... or that was the Devil... or you didn't pray enough... or whatever... God is great!

    I think that most science-based care providers, even those who are deeply religious, believe that outcomes are determined by a partnership of all involved (the patient, their loved ones, healthcare professionals, spiritual leaders, etc) attempt to exert their will over the natural course through their actions (including mind over body to some unquantifiable and unpredictable extent). Sometimes the team fails despite their efforts. Sometimes the team succeeds despite their efforts Sometimes the effort makes all the difference.
    DizzyLizzyNurse likes this.
  9. Oct 6, '12 by
    Indeed there is great diversity in beliefs, even among Christians. I think many many Christians also feel bothered by the attitude that bothered the OP.

    It is actually an affront to many Christian faiths to think that way. Most Christians believe God gave mankind free will! To imply that good things only happen directly through the intervention of God runs counter to this premise. If you believe that, then the only influence a human has is life is prayer, and you must be a Calvinist or believe in some doctrine of predestination. Many who hold such beliefs have not stopped to consider that if you believe God is responsible for all good in the world, then God (according to any Christian theology) must also be RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL EVIL (or what we perceive as evil). If God is not responsible, then God is not all powerful or all knowing. If God is all powerful and all knowing and lets evil occur, then God is not all loving (omnibenevolent) UNLESS God has, in an act of benevolence, yielded part of God's omnipotence to nature and human free will. That is what most Christians believe. If that is the case, then God is not DIRECTLY interfering with the outcomes of our daily lives, and certainly not based on how hard we scream in our minds while kneeling.

    I might not be a Christian, but I have studied Christian theology and philosophy a great deal.
    lorirn58 and Pistachio like this.
  10. Oct 6, '12 by
    Quote from not.done.yet
    For those of us who have had family members who lost, hearing people credit themselves for praying hard enough that God decided to save someone is pretty painful. I guess if I just prayed harder my 13 year old son would not have died, eh?
    I am so sorry for your loss. The belief that we didn't pray enough or we weren't "Christian enough" for God to save my brother was a big contributing factor to me no longer being a Christian. That's a very hurtful and dangerous belief to have.
    DizzyLizzyNurse and lorirn58 like this.